The Realest Fake Thing That Never Was (with Eshwar Segobind)

00:00:00.000 Oh yes, we are live. Oh man. Yeah. I uh I had to tell everyone uh that you
00:00:05.120 had to go potty. Uh that’s why we were starting late. Oh no. Oh boy.
00:00:11.360 You’re you’re like a big baby that I have to take care of. I like, do you need to go potty before we start the show? Oh, do you need your binky?
00:00:18.240 Well, I had to, you know, check just to make sure, you know, it’s good.
00:00:24.240 But thanks for being Do you have a dipstick to check? a brown stick.
00:00:32.238 Everyone, this is Eshoar Seagabind. He has he’s a friend. He’s been on the show before. Uh he is my favorite electrician
00:00:39.040 and awakened gentleman. Lies or lies. Total lies from Philly. Shout out East
00:00:45.360 Coast folks. And he has a um YouTube channel called Sense Without Mind because he is without mind as in batshit
00:00:53.280 crazy. So we’re live and we’re going to take that. Look at him. Look at him. Would you trust that to to deal with
00:00:59.680 your circuit breaker? I wouldn’t. I did. I wouldn’t.
00:01:04.799 It worked. Patrick says, “You know what’s crazy? The live chat says, “Join the conversation to interact with the
00:01:11.119 creator.” Oh man. Uh,
00:01:16.320 those are um tough. Uh, that’s a high standard. Big pants British to Philip.
00:01:23.200 Those shoes are infinite. They’re pretty infinite. Yes. Infinite love, too.
00:01:28.720 Who’s the creator? Yeah. Who’s that, man? Hey, did we did we just become best friends? Did we just
00:01:34.159 I think I I think so. So much room for activities. Um Cynthia says, “Remember to smash the like
00:01:40.799 button.” Thank you for saying what remains unsaid, which is for the algorithm to succeed. Smash the like
00:01:47.759 button. Subscribe to this guy’s channel. I don’t have channel. You need what? You don’t have channel.
00:01:53.600 Don’t try to pretend you’re not an attention-seeking narcissist. Channel 3,
00:01:59.040 we were talking the other day about all the gossip in like awakening circles about different teachers and this and that. And Eshoar said something to the
00:02:05.520 effect of there’s a lot of duality in non-duality. Yes, this this this non-dual seems very
00:02:11.760 dual. Tim Timox says, “What’s ising guys?”
00:02:18.560 Who let the cat out the bag? Uh, so that is the punch line, isn’t it? It’s it’s it’s not what is cuz that’s so
00:02:25.440 static. It’s ising isness. It’s process. Everything here is
00:02:30.640 a flux. The flow and the the isness or dustness or thisness always points back to the
00:02:38.319 flow of things. Non-static. Uh I think minds like landing places,
00:02:44.400 stable places. Isness isn’t a stable place. At least where do you find the
00:02:49.760 isness if you are looking for it? Nothing nothing in this can be captured
00:02:57.440 outside of thought and story and even that is a flux and the isness itself beingness like
00:03:05.360 this implies a process of flow. That’s why I I I like how you use those words thusness. Um so that’s what’s ising Tim.
00:03:13.519 Uh, everything. Em awakening says, “Hello from another bald dude with a big beard. Excited for this chat.”
00:03:20.640 Bruh. Bruh, I don’t think he’s talking to you. You have no He has beard. Only the people who are awake can see
00:03:27.040 this beard. Oh, it’s the emperor’s new beard. No merit. No merit.
00:03:32.080 No merit. No merit. You said emperor. Vast emptiness. Nothing sacred. No. No. Just, you know, I think when you
00:03:39.440 get certain levels, this like it just grows. Yeah, but you also lose here. So
00:03:45.280 that Well, you have a roain secretreting tumor just here. Just here.
00:03:51.599 Oh, there might be some truth to that. I don’t I can honestly say I don’t know. I
00:03:57.439 don’t I do not know. I’m I’m waken up says that’s a great
00:04:02.879 handle. That is, hi Eshoar. We met last year at Angela’s May retreat. You had a conversation on Angela’s channel about heartoping. you
00:04:10.000 had just experienced. What was mindboggling for me was that it felt like I
00:04:16.560 I don’t remember. That’s the isness of liberation. What?
00:04:24.720 What happened? Did something happen? Pizza bread. Two two pa bread. Oh man,
00:04:31.280 that is that is wonderful. Um, it will always feel like I, right? Because it’s
00:04:38.560 familiar. It’s always been there. It’s a recognition of it. Now, what if you go
00:04:43.600 with the feeling of I and then just break the concept of eye open and just leave it right there.
00:04:55.040 See
00:05:08.080 this nness all there is. So what what um I’m waking up is pointing
00:05:16.800 at is something that Ishar experienced recently. And it’s funny because back in the day you and I would
00:05:22.000 talk and the as this kind of thing clears up and the conditioning that
00:05:27.600 seemingly is in the way of seeing things as they are starts to lessen there’s different flavors of how things show up.
00:05:33.600 So one of those flavors is everything is empty of substance and there’s a nothing
00:05:39.680 showing up as everything and it has a certain flavor and a reality about it or a um a sense about it. But we were both
00:05:47.199 saying like I don’t understand what this love stuff is. What does that have to do with anything? Like I haven’t people
00:05:52.400 talk about it, everything is love and they express that God is love, love is God, what is this? But for me it’s like
00:05:59.199 no, there’s nothing happening and it’s a and then the next thing life shows you
00:06:05.759 is that the emptying of you actually primes you for for you to be filled up with the love. I was the biggest skeptic
00:06:12.000 about the whole love thing. like, man, I’ve I’ve done a lot, searched a lot, tried a, you know, couple different
00:06:18.160 types of plant medicines and everybody talked about the love and I never got it. I was like, this is [ __ ] Like,
00:06:24.880 I like these guys, they got to be faking, man. Like, it can’t just be like
00:06:29.919 all blissed out loved up stuff. And I think I got to the point where I was
00:06:36.319 like, you know what? I don’t know. I don’t know what love really is. So, how much love do I have that I can say is
00:06:43.280 something? And so, it was all conceptual. And then when I got to that point, I was like, you know what? I like
00:06:48.720 I really I really don’t know, but I want to find out. And there was like this
00:06:54.000 deep yearning to to be shown, but to be shown in a way where it was it was
00:07:01.120 unfabricated like we our mind is like a fabricating machine in this entire world
00:07:06.319 that’s projected outwards that we find ourselves in. And I can fabricate
00:07:11.360 anything in there, even a conception of love. But I asked for reality to show this in a way where I can’t fabricate
00:07:19.919 it. And it was like
00:07:29.840 I needed to be emptied of all my ideas. And from that place with the yearning
00:07:35.680 when I asked it was like the the entire reality just opened up and this
00:07:42.479 fabricating machine my mind itself just became quiet and the experience was that
00:07:49.199 of a a radiant thing that the closest word
00:07:54.720 that we have that points to it is is love. It’s non-distinguishing.
00:08:00.720 It makes no judgment. It is everything and it’s the only reality that’s real.
00:08:07.919 It’s the only thing that that is always. It’s it’s never not
00:08:14.960 been. There is never an entry point. There was never an exit point. It’s always been
00:08:22.080 that just this nature. It’s nature is a radiant a radiant love. No judgment.
00:08:28.319 It’s all things and everything including all of the fabrications as well.
00:08:33.679 All-encompassing. It doesn’t exclude a single thing.
00:08:41.120 So from this empty voidlike potentiality that everything is vibrating as an
00:08:47.680 appearance empty of real substance or nature comes a fullness
00:08:55.440 that’s beyond mind that the best word like you said is love but it doesn’t
00:09:01.040 touch it doesn’t touch what it is because it’s uncreated by mind but it’s everything and then the mind actually
00:09:09.920 can experience that get reconditioned in a way and then when it does fabricate it’s projecting that love everywhere and
00:09:16.800 then you see the other as you. You see the tree as you and you see it all as love. You see everything that’s happened
00:09:22.640 to you good, bad and indifferent as pure innocent that love and it feels full. So this
00:09:31.120 idea of nihilism and all the all the pieces they fall off like it doesn’t even what are you talking about?
00:09:36.480 Yeah. It goes it goes away. there there is this uh the quality to experience after going through a good bit of these
00:09:43.760 awakening type of experiences. They they’re booting you out of this this
00:09:49.040 mindscape and something gets thrown out with the mind as well. It’s like throwing out the baby with the
00:09:55.040 bathwater. It’s like if the mind is generating all of this and none of this is real,
00:10:01.360 then the mind also makes an assumption that there can’t be any other experience outside of this projection of mind. And
00:10:10.080 we’re like, well, all right, then that’s final. But your your the quality of
00:10:16.880 experience is dead. It’s it’s dry. But this thing is very much vivid and alive.
00:10:23.440 The mind can’t fabricate the vivid and aliveness because it knows nothing about it. It’s when it surrenders back to that
00:10:31.519 then it becomes infused with this vivid alive radiant love which is the nature
00:10:37.040 of reality the nature of the fabric of mind itself. But it could it could have
00:10:42.560 never recognized it because it it never knew what it was. It needed to
00:10:48.160 surrender, empty itself and then it becomes available in this thing kind of like fools it up
00:10:55.440 and all mind can do all mind can know is a story it projects of what that is. So
00:11:01.519 the more you watch and and everything has its time and its place. So the different teachers the different
00:11:06.640 expressions, different YouTube videos, different books, different religious faiths, all of it, they’re all pointing
00:11:12.240 in different ways at this. So what the mind does is it takes these things and says awakening or liberation or
00:11:17.920 salvation or God is like this thing like this kind of love that I can fabricate
00:11:24.079 and understand and now I’m always looking for that or trying to if I have a taste of something that feels like
00:11:29.120 that I want it again the mind will then seek it create it seek it put it in the future that whole thing what Ishar is
00:11:36.560 saying is when the mind surrenders into and as what it’s looking
00:11:43.120 for which is that which can’t really be spoken but you you know it. And part of
00:11:48.399 that knowing is going back into your childhood and realizing that that child that you were
00:11:53.600 was that was that innocent just absolute love radiance is that because
00:11:59.839 it’s right here. It never went anywhere. Yeah. Where could it go? Right. It got it got covered up. And
00:12:05.760 that’s the that’s the thing we start to realize as you touch into that type of
00:12:11.200 component, the love component, that innocence, it was what was being referred to as you. But the conceptual
00:12:17.680 you is a response mechanism to a protective measure for that kid, but
00:12:23.760 it forgot it. It was just running rampant causing all kinds of havoc. Yeah. I mean the analogy that we were
00:12:29.360 making earlier, we were sitting with some other folks and uh the immune system when it detects some kind of
00:12:35.519 threat, it forms a response and there’s all kinds of white cells and cytoines and everything that happens. It then
00:12:41.360 creates a very productive thing. There’s granular acidic tissue, there’s scar tissue, there’s all kinds of stuff. Now
00:12:47.360 would be a good time to insert ads. It says, “Hey YouTube, thanks for reminding me of the money.” No, I’m not going to
00:12:52.959 do that. Did you you wrecking the dharma with your three cents? Yeah. Yeah. Three cents of ad revenue uh
00:12:59.839 from the five people that are watching. Actually, wait. How many people are watching? 160. Oh, damn.
00:13:05.040 I should Now I’m stressed. It’s all love. It’s all love. Tell
00:13:10.240 yourself. Yeah. So, love, love, love, love, love, love. So, it forms this immune response with scar tissue, granulation tissue, healing
00:13:17.440 stuff. Now what we’re talking about is that child that was innocent pure love the world inter intervenes and to
00:13:24.000 protect itself this immune response happens and some of it is different coping mechanisms some of it is going
00:13:29.920 into thoughts some of it is avoiding the body some of it is hiding in the body there’s a million different mechanisms
00:13:36.079 and that’s adaptive at that stage but then as we get older that scar tissue and immune response stays activated
00:13:44.560 and we don’t see it and we think that needs to keep continuing. And all it does then is cause self harm cuz it it
00:13:51.360 builds a wall around the actual sense of what we are, which is this
00:13:56.639 indescribability of love. Man, there’s so much words, right? So much words that we can we can try to use
00:14:03.360 to even get close to pointing to what what’s being referred to as the radiant
00:14:08.639 nature of reality or beingness.
00:14:16.800 And it’s just this simple
00:14:23.279 that this or the elephant in the room.
00:14:29.120 Always silent. See, always silent. Always silent.
00:14:34.160 The elephant in the room is always silent. True school 78 says, “Woke up to the luminous nature of reality at my shitty
00:14:41.199 hospital cafeteria.” Best places. That’s never imagined it could look so magical.
00:14:48.160 It felt like it was being born as it appeared. Oo tantalizing.
00:14:53.600 Very good. I like those words. Yeah, those are good words. They again they point at something that can’t be
00:14:59.760 expressed. But that’s pretty good. Mhm. New in every moment without a conceptual overlay that says
00:15:06.959 what it is. But the conceptual overlay when it arises is it as well. Perfectly fine. perfectly okay. It is no
00:15:13.519 other than it. We we make this distinction when these experiences occur that when we get glimpses of it that
00:15:19.600 it’s other than here because it can seem as though the experience happened apart
00:15:25.920 from this but the machine the projection machine the mind the the the generating of the
00:15:32.639 filtering of reality itself is reinfused with the experience. So it requires some
00:15:38.880 type of effort to start to see this everywhere and then once it’s recognized that’s all really and truly that’s all
00:15:45.680 that you start to see. Almost every every be being operates
00:15:50.880 from a primary I would say jumping off point of compassion and
00:15:57.680 love. The degree to which you feel and engage with what you’re engaging in is
00:16:04.240 directly proportional to the way that you feel and engage. So if you if you don’t feel or have any kind of emotional
00:16:10.399 investment in something, it doesn’t mean anything to you. You don’t really have an response to it. But it’s like walking
00:16:16.800 down the street and somebody get hits by a car. You don’t know the person. And you might say ah it’s kind of but if
00:16:22.480 it’s someone you love see compassion component everything in your being goes
00:16:28.240 towards that that being and it’s the same way with really it’s the same way
00:16:34.560 with ourselves. How come we’re not that way with ourselves? Do we not care about oursel in that way?
00:16:41.920 Do we not flip it around and look for love here instead of out there? Where
00:16:48.160 else are we going to see it? How are we going to recognize it if we don’t know it oursself?
00:16:56.000 And if you can’t see the immune response and the scar tissue that prevents that from happening, if you can’t see that,
00:17:02.639 and that’s what sometimes they call shadow work or something along those lines. And it’s it it it’s impossible
00:17:09.760 for it to be apparent because we’re still operating from what we think we are, which is the response itself. this
00:17:16.799 protective mechanism whether it feels like unworthiness but we won’t look there or shame and we won’t want anyone
00:17:21.919 to look there including us we selfdecee ourselves so we can deceive everybody else to make us feel safe and so when
00:17:30.240 that starts and it’s painful it’s excruciating it’s like you don’t wish it on your
00:17:35.280 worst enemy and yet you wish it on you’re imposing it on yourself right
00:17:40.559 absolutely and it’s it’s never like questioned it’s always like accepted and just kind of
00:17:45.600 like goes on and they’re the blocks. Those are the things that prevent
00:17:51.520 the puress from being discovered and seen as always present, always there. It
00:17:56.880 was never anywhere else. So, so Marathon Monk says, “What do you think of paradox?” And I’m going to say this, this is an example of paradox. You
00:18:04.080 can only think of paradox because paradox is mind created. It’s when the mind just goes, “Huh?” Because
00:18:09.360 two things are true at once or two things aren’t true or both are true and not true. So a paradox is what we’re
00:18:14.880 pointing out here. We’re saying how do you see things as they are?
00:18:21.440 Well, there’s a doing component to it and the doer seems to be the one that’s
00:18:27.200 actually creating the problem. So whether you meditate or you do the
00:18:32.480 shadow work or you do therapy or psychedelics or whatever the path takes you and it shows up when it shows up it
00:18:38.240 feels like effort from a self that’s doing something and yet it seems to be
00:18:43.840 necessary to strip that to see it to see that nothing was necessary in that way.
00:18:49.600 Yeah. Yeah. The the process itself is interesting. It’s like you you needed to get up to go look to realize that you
00:18:56.080 never needed to move an inch to see this. The effort is needed to to go and
00:19:01.280 find out. And when you find out, you’re like, “Damn it, fuck.” Like, I could have been just
00:19:07.120 [ __ ] around this whole time. Yeah. But it’s it’s required. Yeah. It’s it’s just a necessary thing. And
00:19:14.320 it’s it’s also the only way you will look and accept it because everyone can tell you I think anyone here that’s
00:19:19.679 listening to this I could say the nature of reality is is a pure radiating love
00:19:24.960 that infuses the very aspect that you’re calling you the eye and the air that
00:19:30.799 you’re breathing right now that you’re calling era. Does that mean anything to you? No.
00:19:37.919 But find out because it’s a possibility.
00:19:43.520 I mean, listen, we’re I mean, he’s bald. I’m bald, right? I’m like, so trust us.
00:19:49.840 Two bald guys in a sack. Two two bald head in a sack. That doesn’t bode well.
00:19:56.480 B two nuts in a sack. Two nuts in a sack. Does that That’s also the case. Yeah.
00:20:02.240 Uh well, yeah. You know, I say for for someone like me that had
00:20:09.360 the background that I did with uh addiction and you know, workaholic and
00:20:14.400 all this type stuff and normal you know there’s nothing special about about me and if I can come to this firm firm
00:20:22.960 believer that anyone can discover this for themselves. There is nothing special
00:20:28.400 about me like I didn’t go get zened out in the mountain somewhere. Maybe that can help folks. But this was done in I
00:20:36.720 was in my truck contemplating this stuff. You know, I think certain
00:20:41.760 environments can be conducive to it. But everybody has access to do it. It’s a willingness to look honestly within
00:20:48.640 yourself and be able to face whatever comes up because the first block always
00:20:54.320 is you and the last block always will be you. The thing to surrender is you. Right?
00:21:01.760 the paradox. Well, how is this me going to surrender me and what am I going to get from it?
00:21:08.960 Well, why do you want something? Just be curious about what comes.
00:21:14.799 And again, if I tell you exactly what it is like I just did, does that make you
00:21:20.000 feel better? It could, but go and find out.
00:21:28.880 Pipananda in a related note says all trauma tell me what you think of this. All trauma is about protecting the
00:21:35.039 imagined self from immediate experience.
00:21:40.400 The response to the trauma is the self. That’s the protective measure. What
00:21:45.760 you’re calling you the adult version of the child. The the thing the beauty of
00:21:52.480 what was going to be protected which was your job was the child.
00:21:57.840 the the identity and the ego, the response, the thing that grew up that was supposed to protect a child has been
00:22:04.320 running a muck, claiming that it’s everything or it knows.
00:22:09.679 It’s making up reality or go back to the child. It’s been tugging
00:22:14.960 and calling you. The self isn’t protecting.
00:22:20.480 What’s it protecting? Itself. The trauma response
00:22:26.240 is the self.
00:22:32.960 It’s selfness. It’s a process constantly of scar formation, protection,
00:22:39.919 diffusion, projection, repression, all of it. And and this is how the mass of
00:22:45.440 humanity lives their life. This is how society, which is a projection of the mass of humanity living its life, shows
00:22:51.600 up. And what is actually the nature here
00:22:56.880 is what it thought it was protecting in the beginning and now it is it is the
00:23:02.080 process that’s run among you. It is this apparent you unknowingly. Unknowingly and innocently. It’s not
00:23:08.400 like it’s not some evil entity. Yeah. Like you didn’t make the decision to be like oh snap. It was one of the
00:23:15.200 reasons why it doesn’t recognize itself as being um
00:23:20.320 the the puress of uh nature love that
00:23:25.760 that component of it is because that was prior to its conception. It doesn’t know
00:23:31.919 what was before it. And when you what I found when I came up to it, there was a
00:23:37.600 fear that came up because there was a fear of the unknown. It knows nothing about that. I didn’t know anything about
00:23:44.000 that. So, it was I was there prostrating
00:23:49.280 and begging this little kid to let me back inside because my job was to
00:23:55.440 protect it, but I ran with all these ideas and concepts and I forgot it. I just left it alone and it’s been terrif
00:24:01.760 the the little kid was just terrified because I was supposed to my job is the mind identify categorize
00:24:10.080 label the reality make sense of it and bring the information back to the little kid and be like all right this is what
00:24:16.080 this is this is what we’re going to call this this is what we’re going to call this thing right the complete unknown
00:24:23.600 which is in front of your face right now this thing we’ll call an elephant here elephant
00:24:29.120 right? This is completely unknown. You don’t know what this is.
00:24:36.000 And then we left the kid in the room scared shitless.
00:24:42.080 And then we were saying, “Oh, oh, I’m not real.” But what are you looking for then? The you’re you’re the realest fake
00:24:50.080 thing that ever that never was. And then the thing that’s actually there
00:24:55.200 that you’re saying doesn’t exist is the thing that’s been calling you. hoping that you would come back home.
00:25:02.080 See, ask for forgiveness. Sorry, I got away. That’s how it was for me. I was
00:25:07.279 like, man, sorry I left you alone. I I I really didn’t know. And you were calling
00:25:12.480 my entire life. All of the like hardship I was going through were all
00:25:18.960 they were all like stumbling blocks that it put in the way hoping that I would trip and turn around and see it. I’m
00:25:25.919 like, “Oh my god, man. But that’s just that was my experience with it.
00:25:31.840 Yeah. And for me that’s felt like right here. It’s physically embodied that child. It’s that that love that it’s a
00:25:38.640 bittersweet feeling because you’re right. Like it was throwing all
00:25:44.080 these hints, all these fishing lines, right? That try to like you say, pull you back and show you what you actually
00:25:50.000 are or what this is. And and we, you know, we keep going. the
00:25:56.559 the the you keeps viewing and and the thing even that you even that delusion even that suffering is this radiance.
00:26:05.120 Mhm. Yeah. It is this. So you can’t get away from it anyway. So it’s all kind of a game of it’s like a house of sliding
00:26:13.120 mirrors that seemingly keeps us quote asleep. Yeah. There there’s a definitely a
00:26:18.799 couple folds to this and as you you kind of unfold and unpack the layers it gets
00:26:25.200 a little deeper into the reality of what all of this is. The first the first fold
00:26:31.360 that gets approached would be the self itself the con our very conception of
00:26:38.159 what we’re calling us to be. The second fold would be well would that be able to surrender back to the purity that’s
00:26:44.960 always been here. A fear usually comes up because it’s it’s a fear of the unknown. It never knew the unknown. And
00:26:52.799 then when the you go to the child and the purity of what the child is is
00:26:58.559 revealed which is the radiant love itself and it shows that it was never anywhere else. It’s always been there
00:27:05.039 waiting for you. Then the form and the formless.
00:27:12.320 The apparentness of that is indescribable. Actually,
00:27:17.440 Wendy says, quote, “You’ve always had the power, my dear. You just had to learn it for yourself.” Auntie M.
00:27:23.919 Uhhuh. Oh, auntie. Auntie M. of course. It’s always an auntie. She didn’t.
00:27:29.200 She was the first Indian auntie is a wizard of Oz. And she never said anything. It’s now in
00:27:34.240 you have the key to answered and you’re just quiet. Auntie M was in black and white. We
00:27:39.360 never knew she was Indian. She was actually brown. Nobody knew. She was the original guru,
00:27:44.400 the OG. The cameraman knew. The camera. You could see in color.
00:27:52.240 How do they not see? How did How did they not see? Unless Unless Unless he’s looking She is black
00:27:57.840 and white. Wait a minute. This is photo accurate. Um, someone here mentioned, okay, yeah,
00:28:04.960 Cyprian Georgescu says, “You are Zuben Demana now.” Nice. So, I changed my
00:28:10.320 YouTube channel’s name from Zdog MD to Zuben Demana. And then Kathy says
00:28:15.360 something interesting which resonates here. She says, “Well, yes, because Zuben is the original child that’s
00:28:21.200 awake. Zdog is the persona created to protect young Zuben.” Oh my god, she’s been watching.
00:28:26.880 Oh [ __ ] This whole time she’s seen you. You’ve seen me too much. You should have told him. I Yeah. Why didn’t you say Why didn’t
00:28:34.080 you You knew this. Why didn’t you say anything? I’ve been faking it. It’s your fault. You’ve been pretending.
00:28:40.480 That’s it. That’s it. Well, you know, so this this I can speak personally about this. I I would hope.
00:28:48.000 Am I? I’m not. Yeah. No. No. I’m going to bypass into Tony Parson’s land. There’s no person here to speak of. Uh the speaking is
00:28:54.880 occurring by no one for no one. Okay. So is when I started this channel, I created the
00:29:01.840 persona as a protective mechanism. It was almost conscious because I was working at Stanford Hospital and I
00:29:08.240 didn’t want them to search the name Zuben Demana and find me and fire me for
00:29:13.919 being a clown. Darth Vader Doug Ver. So So I created Zdog and then
00:29:19.120 it became a thing. It became an identity. It became a persona. You opened your own clown chakra.
00:29:24.799 I opened my clown chakra. That’s right. The clown chakra was radiating annoying
00:29:30.320 parodies. Oh my god, you did that. I did it. I did it. And uh and then it it became a
00:29:36.000 self-fulfilling entity that I had to protect in of itself and it kept me feeling safe. If they see the real me,
00:29:42.240 if they see what a completely unworthy piece of [ __ ] I am as Zuben Demana, then what what would I’ll be ruined, right?
00:29:49.200 It’s shame. And so when that starts to go with this excruciating process
00:29:55.440 of seeing all of it, it’s like now like this weekend I’m like do you change name Zuben Demana send
00:30:02.640 that looks right okay and that was it quick done done finished and it feels not like
00:30:08.559 nothing. Marathon Monk says, “Speaking of paradox, I’ve liked your pointing of already dead. Now what?” So this is
00:30:15.200 something that Margaret, my wife, came up with. She said, you know, I realized something. We’re already dead
00:30:20.880 and this is what it’s like. And so there’s nothing gained or lost. This is what that’s like.
00:30:26.240 And uh it’s just a pointing like a con. It’s like what were you like before you were born? You know, that is true.
00:30:32.640 True. Yeah. Yeah. It’s uh but but again but again but again so this is the trick
00:30:39.360 that’s a beautiful pointer to see the the actual nature of apparition
00:30:44.880 appearance emptiness of any self nature or
00:30:52.080 substantial nature. It’s just what it is as appearance. But what it doesn’t point at is what Ishoar is pointing to now
00:30:59.440 which is that fullness. So you could say it this way. You’re already dead. So now what’s this? And then you just feel you
00:31:05.600 just see it unfiltered and it’s like it’s unspeakable
00:31:11.600 perfect love is the only words that I can that come out of my mouth but they don’t touch it at all. Right.
00:31:17.039 Yeah. Like everyone like right this your physical reality right now that you’re
00:31:22.080 looking at the experience that you’re having in this very moment. If you if you consider this
00:31:28.480 physiologically, it takes time for light to hit the retina, this electrical
00:31:34.000 signal to be converted and sent to the brain so it can uh absorb this this
00:31:39.039 image, absorb that signal and then spit back out this world that you’re experiencing right now, which is
00:31:45.039 essentially the inside of your head. That little bit of time that it took to translate this experience that you’re
00:31:51.039 experiencing currently already occurred. So you’re exper what you’re experiencing right now isn’t actually now. It it
00:31:57.440 already happened, right? So where is the
00:32:02.480 the vivid and aliveness of all of this? Right? There’s there’s a this entire
00:32:10.799 sensiated experience is fabricated right now. Even if it’s uh you’re looking at
00:32:17.279 it unfiltered, but there’s still a component missing because it the mind
00:32:22.640 can’t fabricate this type of love. It’s it’s something that’s beyond its
00:32:28.320 knowledge. So at this moment
00:32:33.440 in this experience is where you you surrender like the idea of you. You s
00:32:39.840 you surrender the entire reality to it. Give it back. You’re like, “All right, I don’t know.” Even this experience, you
00:32:45.760 don’t know. Give it back and find the love.
00:32:51.360 Ask Ask for it to be shown to you and be willing to see it. It’s one thing to ask
00:32:57.519 and then have an expectation of what you’re going to get. You’re not going to get anything. It’s one thing to ask
00:33:02.720 openly knowing that you don’t know. That’s the empty side of it. Then it
00:33:08.559 starts to fill you up. And this is the devotional aspect of the
00:33:16.720 spiritual journey. It’s the aspect of actual devotion which is not you’re not devoting yourself to a part. It can show
00:33:24.159 up this way as a deity or a god or a something or an idea. It’s a devotion to this by giving everything back like
00:33:32.480 saying I give you myself. I give you this. Just dissolve it back into what it is. True prostration,
00:33:39.519 true humiliation in a way. You’re on your knees and then knees and on and you are
00:33:46.240 just that just that. And it feels like I remember when people talk about devotional stuff, I’m like that’s not my
00:33:51.679 path. I don’t know what the [ __ ] that is. I don’t know what that I don’t devote my [ __ ] to anything cuz I’m [ __ ] Zog MD, whatever the [ __ ] that
00:33:57.760 means. And instead now it’s like oh every moment puts you on your putting yourself
00:34:04.399 on your knees to this. Uh and then what what’s you lose you in a sense and
00:34:11.839 what’s gained is what was never lost which is everything everything all of it the misapprehension of experience
00:34:19.520 is what’s realized and it was a it was a subtle thing that was kind of
00:34:28.159 essentially it was you you you are the thing that was blocking the whole thing. So it’s like if it’s truly understanding
00:34:34.079 that none of this belongs to you. So you’re you’re just you’re ready and willing to just give it all back because
00:34:40.560 so far it hasn’t it hasn’t satisfied you. Even the well-wishing machine of your
00:34:46.560 mind hasn’t given you the thing that you’re satisfied with. So give it back. It doesn’t belong to you. It’s not
00:34:53.679 getting it’s not getting you what you want. Give it back. Who are you giving it back to? Reality itself. the the the
00:35:01.040 thing that’s outside of the projection. I don’t know. Just give it back. Don’t and you don’t know what that is. This can’t know what that is. So, it
00:35:06.800 blindly and with pure acceptance and humility gives it back. And you can’t fake it either.
00:35:13.520 I mean, you know when you’re faking it because you would have an expectation to receive something. So, you’re only
00:35:18.640 giving if you’re going to get something. It isn’t like that for sure. And this has been said as a rich man
00:35:25.040 has, you know, more chance of getting into heaven as a camel going through the eye of an needle or something. Rich meaning rich with these concepts with
00:35:32.560 this identity with the the these stories and projections like G
00:35:39.760 give it back and then the kingdom of heaven is this. It always has been right. Yeah. Um one thing uh uh DVD man says is
00:35:47.520 the clown chakra in your belly button or on your nose? I think it’s between uh
00:35:53.680 Oh, I know where I was going to say but I I know where we said it the last time we did. I believe it rhymes with paint.
00:36:00.160 Yes. That’s where it rests.
00:36:06.880 It begins and it ends there.
00:36:13.119 We said we wouldn’t say gave it away. I gave it all away. You know, they say you can’t tell you what the matrix is.
00:36:18.720 You have to see it for yourself. Find it. So, look at your look. You’ll literally be laughing laughing your ass off. And
00:36:26.320 we got to say, we got to say the clown chakra came from Josh Putnham, man. Give him credit. Yeah, Josh. When I when
00:36:32.400 I saw the meme that he put with that, I was like, “What the what the actual f was that?” And I told my wife about it,
00:36:38.640 dude. I swear to God, she laughed for like two days. The clown chakra. Clown chakra. My kids are like, “What’s
00:36:44.400 what’s a what’s a what’s a chakra? And what’s a what’s a clown chakra?” And
00:36:50.400 dude, that’s that’s perfect. Hilarious. And you say there’s no love in the universe. It’s all love. The clown
00:36:55.839 chakra. The clown chakra. Josh. Clown chakra. Clown chakra. Uh, someone said the
00:37:01.359 aliveness is on time delay. Kathy. Oh, yeah. Oh, man. This audience is
00:37:08.400 They’re good. They’re good. They’re my people. It’s lagging.
00:37:16.079 Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Do you have to die to get it? If it’s lagging, that’s when you catch up, right?
00:37:21.440 You die. You die and it rebuffers. Yep. Oh, so funniest thing. So we were talking
00:37:27.760 last night about how you know incarnations are they’re a good story like reincarnation and so on and and
00:37:33.839 part of the story is you resolve your things in this life and whatever’s left that things that’s unresolved or is
00:37:39.920 still conditioned sets up like a candle. You know your body’s the candle and there’s a flame. The the candle dies but
00:37:46.880 the flame lights the next one with its conditioning and that then starts your next life. And and we were thinking
00:37:52.560 like, okay, so you do all this work and you think you’ve really crushed it and you’re like, “Yeah, I solved this [ __ ] No more rebirth.” And then the next
00:37:59.200 thing you’re you die. The next thing you know, you’re like, you’ve come out of a vagina or a
00:38:05.440 C-section scar and you’re just and you remember you remember everything. Everything you remember, every single thing and you can’t talk.
00:38:12.640 And so what does it look like?
00:38:17.839 No. And that’s the cry cuz you remember and
00:38:23.520 you can’t tell anybody cuz you can’t speak. You’re like
00:38:31.520 that’s right. This is birth. Every baby you’ve seen Nick you people
00:38:39.280 I can’t say [ __ ] about. And so this is what happens as the mom starts talking to them. They get conditioned and they
00:38:44.880 the minute they say their first word, they’ve forgotten everything. The whole thing and they got to do it again.
00:38:50.079 Start over. Start over. Finish all the things that you didn’t want to start the last time. So [ __ ] get on that. This is your
00:38:55.440 chance. What is it going to be? You
00:39:08.400 Oh, the cosmic joke, man. Uh that that was that’s an awesome story by the way.
00:39:14.320 See Levy Levy just Devi Devdon says I just got the cosmic joke and that’s on lag. So he said that before I said the
00:39:19.680 cosmic joke. You interpret it and then it’s like dude buffer buffer buffer buffer buffer and then
00:39:25.040 I got it. You will never look at another baby the
00:39:31.520 same way again. Never again. Never again. Or birth. No any of it. It’s Oh, it’s it’s
00:39:36.800 gorgeous. Um Mar Marathon Monk says accurate. My mother told me I had to be forced out of the womb and then I
00:39:42.720 inhaled my own [ __ ] suffocating kidium aspiration. That’s hilarious. I’m not going. I’m no piece of [ __ ]
00:39:50.560 I will eat this before I go.
00:39:56.240 All these props. They’re all perfect. They went well. I mean,
00:40:01.359 bro, you’re like, I I I will eat this. Then you have to come. I am not coming
00:40:07.920 back out, dude. Oh my god. Um, emanated apparition says, “Damn, how
00:40:13.599 did I miss this for 40 minutes?” I mean, yeah, you came at the right time. Has it been 40 minutes already?
00:40:18.720 Has it? It has. Oh my god, dude. Time is totally constructed. Relative to the I thought we were just
00:40:25.440 getting started. For real, dude. It just went like bam. Well, we’re not done. Are we like getting started?
00:40:30.800 Did we reborn again? Dude, we just become best birth buddies. Red. So much room for activity.
00:40:37.680 So totally. Oh my god. On this, isn’t it?
00:40:43.359 On three. Best spiritual guru to beat off to. One, two, three.
00:40:54.960 Oh my god. All right. Um. Oh man. Yeah. I got to take a I got to take a sip of
00:41:00.000 the of the water here. The coolage. Mhm. Oh my god. Hey, you’re you’re from
00:41:05.599 Guyana, man. Like uh you are Jim Jones. That that’s where the Kool-Aid was. That’s what it was.
00:41:10.720 You made them drink it. Yes. Um Sue Surrenish says, “Uh, can you stop
00:41:16.240 bringing up my work? I’m off today.” She’s an obstitrician, so she sees it all the time.
00:41:21.680 She’s like, I don’t want to be reminded. Nope. Nope. These babies know. Um Ashley’s crying. That’s good. Tears of
00:41:28.160 laughter. At this moment, my niece is in labor. Oh my god. Tell her to pay particularly close
00:41:34.960 attention to the baby’s expression and see if there’s a recognition of reality and be like
00:41:44.319 Imagine full knowledge, but you can’t move much. All you can do is cry. Dude,
00:41:49.599 dude, it’s perfect. Um, if Wendy says [ __ ] get on, that should be a t-shirt. Yeah, [ __ ] get
00:41:55.119 on that, Zuben. Yeah. Um, yeah. So, you know, you’ve been here a day or two.
00:42:00.640 We’ve met with some great people and hung out and it’s just been uh magical, man.
00:42:05.920 Oh, yeah. Yeah. It was a literal journey to get here. Yeah. Yeah. So, his plane, he was
00:42:12.160 supposed to get on the flight at 6:00 a.m. Eastern time in Philly. Mhm. American Airlines. Not to name names.
00:42:17.680 We’re going to name names. We’re not going to drop any uh you know, but you know what the So, what happened? Like the first flight
00:42:23.920 apparently he boards. We had to get on Dplane and then we had to get off Dplane. So, we deplaned the
00:42:30.319 plane and they were like, “We can’t get it to work.” They’re like, “Another one is coming. Promise that one is going to
00:42:36.560 get you where you need to go.” Apparently, that one didn’t have oxygen for the the captain. O2 is optional,
00:42:42.240 but he they say he needs it. They say he needs it to cognate. Yeah. And they’re like, “Well, the plane is on autopilot.
00:42:48.880 You can’t go on that one.” So, you have to wait again. Next plane come. We get
00:42:54.400 on the plane. They’re like, “Wait, we have to stop boarding the plane.” What happened? Uh,
00:43:01.839 the oxygen isn’t working again. They’re like, “No, no, no, no. It’s a
00:43:07.119 seat. The seat didn’t need to fix the seat. It’s okay. They’re going to fix the seat now and then you could get back on.” So, there was It took at least, I
00:43:14.480 think, like 90 hours to get here. Yeah. 90. Yeah. 11 hours later, he shows up and we’re like, “Let’s go.”
00:43:20.000 Yep. Let’s go. So, it’s been non-stop. And you know, it’s like you you might say
00:43:25.280 like even at a level of clarity that Ishoar has that that that that work
00:43:30.480 doesn’t still arise, but it does. Stuff arises and you see it and you’re seeing what’s blind, what what you’re blind to
00:43:36.960 and it it’ll show itself. Yeah. Especially when you’re attuning and then that comes and then I’ve heard it said
00:43:43.359 that uh there is an end to that at least as an ongoing um acute process. the
00:43:50.480 shadow shadow. And that is true. Um just like love, I thought it was [ __ ]
00:43:56.800 cuz when you’re in the deep throws of shadow and it has you over the table. Um lube or no lube?
00:44:02.319 That that was it. It’s it’s how rough are you going to like it or take it. Either way, it’s coming.
00:44:08.240 And you know, it can seem like there is no end to it. And for a long time with some of the stuff that I faced, I
00:44:13.839 thought like there was absolutely no way this thing was going to ever work itself out. M
00:44:19.200 and there’s a hopelessness, a desperation that arises through through this weekend, even
00:44:24.240 coming down this way. Um there was still a little bit of stuff to clear out and through the conversations that we had,
00:44:30.960 you uh Alma and Tatiana, it it allowed for that final
00:44:38.240 permission for me to be okay with the the trauma response that was me
00:44:44.560 and the last bit of holding to kind of let go. And when I did, it was it was almost there was such a um
00:44:54.480 it was like I could finally just relax and I felt the way I felt when I was a kid and it was like unrestricted and I
00:45:04.240 didn’t have any kind of projection when I had said like I I was like man I
00:45:09.920 I I really I feel like a kid. I feel like when when I was a child and I
00:45:14.960 didn’t have when I said that usually there’s a projection of an image that I have of myself there was no projection.
00:45:21.440 It was just like this just this pure clear moment of um Yeah, man. Like all
00:45:28.640 like all the shadow stuff is is done
00:45:34.400 for now. For now. Yeah. And that and that’s like it might show up but the but the flavor of it might be different. Um
00:45:42.079 because there okay there’s a there part of this process there’s different insights and clarities and realizations
00:45:48.960 and blah blah blah but ultimately it feels like there is a looking in at everything that you won’t look at that
00:45:54.160 was that was hidden by this process of protection that’s hiding this child ultimately we’re this just a manner of
00:46:00.800 speaking this isn’t necessarily literally how we’re talking but it’s a way of speaking and and but it can get
00:46:06.560 so heavy the stuff that can arise and it feels never ending ing and you might
00:46:11.599 deal with the same thing coming up multiple times and then you think and we were talking to someone else today about
00:46:16.720 this and she said you god you know I thought I was I really figured it out and then something would happen and I
00:46:22.079 would go completely unconscious completely triggered reactive playing
00:46:27.520 out the conditioning again for the 10,000th time maybe the 10,000th lifetime
00:46:33.119 and there was despair like and the way that they tried to process it was well
00:46:38.160 okay maybe there’s no end to this and it’s just an ongoing process and I will accept the reactivity as it is and
00:46:43.440 that’s it. Mhm. But she she knew right that that she was deluding herself that
00:46:49.119 no this can also needs more looking it it will it’s showing itself and then
00:46:54.480 when that was done it it felt like oh there was like a clarity a definitive
00:47:00.240 kind of dropping but that’s after years I was counting back like it’s been um
00:47:07.440 since the process started in 2017 with being into treatment it’s been three
00:47:12.960 five eight going on nine years, right, of just constant not letting up on any of this.
00:47:19.119 So all the initial shift and insights initially started like within the first eight months. That’s how drastic and
00:47:25.680 fast it went. But the like the shadow work stuff, the ensuing
00:47:33.200 very uh pain-free last six years
00:47:38.960 was insane. But I just I just
00:47:45.359 like all of life prior to that was has been so traumatic and painful. Like I
00:47:50.640 was I was ready to sacrifice me to see this through all the way.
00:47:56.240 And the result on the other side wasn’t anything I could have ever predicted. The only thing that was required of me
00:48:02.640 was a willingness to go and and see this all the way through. And you know, we
00:48:08.640 know when we’re bullshitting ourselves. We know when there’s something that comes up that we really need to look at
00:48:15.200 and when we bypass and you’re like, “Ah, maybe it’s not that serious.” You know, to yourself what it is that
00:48:20.400 you’re doing. You also know because it can become, I feel like, a comfortable place where the
00:48:26.240 mind only wants to generate more problems for you to solve and keep you distracted as well.
00:48:32.559 So that’s also something to kind of pay attention to. It’s almost addiction to the process of looking where you’re
00:48:38.960 generating problems because mind loves that. Mind wants to put it on the hamster wheel. Always put it in the future. Always make it something
00:48:44.880 unresolved. Yeah. Yeah. But we know exactly the the things that
00:48:50.480 have the most impact on us. That kind of puts us whether we’re going to look and
00:48:56.160 resolve it or we’re just going to be like, you know what, I’m not dealing with this. And for me, facing all of this stuff
00:49:02.480 head on was where it had the most impact. And also there were people
00:49:08.400 around me that um I trusted and that they trusted me as well that I
00:49:13.920 can entrust with them some of the burdens that I had. And that in itself allowed for like this
00:49:19.839 last release the conversations that we had allowed I mean all the the last bit
00:49:25.040 of it to just kind of like fall away. I was like like I haven’t felt like
00:49:33.520 like a kid my whole life. My whole life
00:49:40.319 like the the this protective thing it was been operating for so long that like it just forgot the kid. It forgot what
00:49:46.960 it was doing. And today was the f it was like the first day. I was like man.
00:49:53.680 So this is this is it’s amazing by the way. And by the way, so the the holding of space for that which you do for me is
00:49:59.520 this non-judgmental seeing of what’s expressed in a way where cuz this is a
00:50:04.800 lot of the stuff that’s shadow is felt as whether it’s objectively true because there’s no such thing. shame, guilt,
00:50:13.040 regret, brokenness, unworthiness, twistedness, all this stuff that comes up and a lot of it is conditioned from
00:50:20.319 society and we’re told this is bad, this is good, this is bad, you’re you’re bad,
00:50:25.520 shame, you know, all of this. So to have it be able to be expressed when you’ve always been afraid that you’d be ruined
00:50:31.920 if someone knew this aspect of your of trauma or shame or whatever it is and to
00:50:37.280 have it be accepted fully and not judgmentally then that that is the seeing in a way that that is the
00:50:43.040 releasing of it because it had been pushed down by the same immune process we were talking about earlier and and
00:50:49.119 everything else. Um and and it just starts to rest and now this is the
00:50:54.559 thing. So Ishwar says, “I’ve never felt like a child all my adult life.” But the thing is the child is there.
00:51:00.880 And guess what? Others see it. So when I see Ishar, I see a big old baby. Like I
00:51:06.079 see a kid. Like the way he expresses, the way he talks, I’m like, “That’s why I love Ishuar, cuz he’s childlike.”
00:51:12.160 And so for him to say, “I don’t feel like that.” Well, so what is that? It’s that it’s that shell of that
00:51:17.200 conditioning that hasn’t a shadow that hasn’t been seen. Yeah. And And that was exactly it. It it was
00:51:23.040 it was like being painted in a corner with with this shame and guilt kind of
00:51:28.160 thing that didn’t have it didn’t have an outlet just even to be heard
00:51:33.440 because it didn’t feel that it can if it let this information out that it would be destroyed completely and that wasn’t
00:51:42.319 it was a complete projection. It was a complete fabrication because when when the outlet occurred, it was it was
00:51:50.559 completely accepted without any counter judgment. And it was like holy [ __ ] like I like I was going about
00:51:58.480 this aspect for wrong years and years. But
00:52:04.960 this is something as the layers in my my experience with it as the layers were being peeled off and there’s a lot of
00:52:11.440 stuff that have come up over the years. It’s like those layers are necessary to be removed in order so this can come up.
00:52:18.400 So you’re that I had the capacity to see it, accept it, deal with it in a in a
00:52:26.160 healthy way. Even though the pattern and cycle was unhealthy, I had the presence
00:52:31.839 of mind and conscious attention to see well there’s something here and it needs
00:52:37.040 to be like I need to to see about this and fortunate for me the seeing about it
00:52:43.839 was relying on others. So it’s like you know you can the work you have to do on
00:52:51.119 your own but there are other people walking the path too. So you can always be like hey
00:52:57.920 as we were saying when the circuit is ready the electrician appears. Oh yes you know that’s that’s that’s what it
00:53:04.559 is. They show up these bodhicattvas these uh they’re all projections of you.
00:53:10.800 They show up pointing you back home back to this thing back it’s a it’s almost a dance that that reality is doing with
00:53:16.720 itself if you want to speak in that way. Um which sometimes I do and sometimes I don’t. Well, the the subtle uh it’s like
00:53:25.839 this little translucent thing was standing in the way of form and formless
00:53:31.440 and claiming a landing point and there is just the flow. The identity, the ego,
00:53:39.359 all of it is is perfect as it is. It isn’t tied to anything including the
00:53:44.960 trauma and the stories and the the efing of creating more traumas and stories.
00:53:50.079 the the cycle itself is okay to just go on. It has nothing to really do with
00:53:55.280 anything. And it’s no other than formless, form and formless. It’s all one and the
00:54:01.760 same. And it’s like there’s this very real sense now that
00:54:10.079 everyone that’s been spoken to is this very thing speaking to itself, helping
00:54:16.079 itself, loving itself, being compassionate towards itself, guiding itself in all of
00:54:23.839 in all forms as the conceptual
00:54:29.839 restrictions that we can put on ourselves. in morality and all kinds of stuff. Um,
00:54:36.720 this thing is only ever trying to help itself and see itself. And it’s like I like look the form of Zuben, but the
00:54:44.880 thing that’s there behind what what’s called Zuben is the same thing that’s
00:54:49.920 here. And it’s only helping itself always. Today when the four of us were sitting
00:54:56.240 out there in the studio living room and looking at each other, you had pointed this out and it was obviously you could feel it. It was reality talking to
00:55:02.720 itself through four different masks, four different forms and uh it was just gorgeous.
00:55:08.559 It’s it’s it’s fascinating what starts to become apparent because this entire like you’re if you’re in a
00:55:14.400 room with two people like it’s his entire experience is a reflection. This entire experience is a reflection
00:55:20.880 interpretive that’s reflecting that experience. It’s infinite experience reflecting infinite experiences and all
00:55:28.480 of them are perfectly fine and okay. Nothing wrong with any one of them cuz from the point of view of the reflection
00:55:34.880 that’s perfectly fine as well. And then that reflects this one and it reflects
00:55:40.160 reflects reflects in that infinitely always. Everything is everything is just
00:55:45.599 cool. It’s all good man. It’s all good. Now Patrick says something interesting. He says,”Not only do I not see the child in
00:55:53.200 me, but I only see me in the child as if the child never was. It was just me the
00:55:59.359 whole time.” Right? This seems to me like this is what that
00:56:05.839 me sense that inflammation will do is filter it. So you can’t even your
00:56:11.920 memories of what it was to be a child are seen through the prism of what it is to be the me now. It’s trying to claim
00:56:19.200 something that it knows nothing about. Knows nothing about absolutely nothing. Yeah. And that’s that’s one of the one of the
00:56:26.400 tools that it has and and and that feeling that you have of you is the most
00:56:33.680 real feeling that you have and that is a feeling that isn’t. So this is what Ishwar said earlier. It’s the realest fake thing in the
00:56:40.960 universe. It feels that real and it’s it’s absolutely inappropriate. You’re the realest fake thing that never
00:56:47.119 was. I didn’t hear like what what let me do the math on that. Carry the one
00:56:54.400 me because it’ll make it seem as though the thing that the thing that says that that that isn’t real. That’s the thing
00:57:01.040 that isn’t real. You It’s you. Yeah. It’sing it’s the it’s the
00:57:06.559 reflection. The Bentler says,”Ive been working through my past and I’ve been uh quickly
00:57:12.079 realizing apart from certain incidents of consequence, all other thoughts, judgments, shame were all constructed
00:57:18.480 and circulating within. What about even the incident of shame
00:57:23.680 like and of consequence like the incident of consequence? What were those constructed?” Like how do we know what’s
00:57:29.440 constructed by mind and fabricated and what just is?
00:57:34.880 Does it matter? H yeah.
00:57:40.000 Well, where else would it be fabricated or even where else can it even be
00:57:45.040 considered? It’s all this construct.
00:57:50.480 And then this electrical signals and all of that the experience right now is the inside
00:57:56.640 of your head. So all of that is fabricated where this is in there. Where
00:58:01.839 else would it be? M this is literally what the inside of
00:58:07.920 your head looks like. Yeah, you’re looking at the four bits of your skull. It’s all this. If if you and
00:58:14.160 you don’t even have to Okay, we’re assuming a materialist model is real. That there’s a brain and it’s generating
00:58:19.440 consciousness. Let’s just take that assumption for a second. If that’s true, this is all the inside of your head that you’re looking at. It’s all constructed.
00:58:25.440 Whether there’s a real world out there or not, you don’t know and it doesn’t matter. But so now you let go of that
00:58:30.720 construction. You surrender it into the unknown. The unknown becomes apparent as
00:58:36.240 well, which is the totality of your experience right now. Your known experience is what
00:58:41.599 you’re surrendering. Go ahead. If you know all of this, give it up.
00:58:46.960 See what see what’s actual real because you you can’t say if there’s something outside of this because this is all that
00:58:52.880 you know. It’s all you can know from that space. So, what can’t you know from here? And
00:59:00.319 what’s what’s paradoxical is it this is where I don’t want to I don’t even want to talk about that because you’re making
00:59:06.720 it unknown. Yeah. Well, it’s giving you a fabrication to chase after
00:59:14.079 right because you’ll now take that information, interpret it, and then create some kind of image, mental
00:59:20.319 imagery inside of your head that you’re going to go and chase. Now, it that’s just another rabbit hole you’re going down. M
00:59:26.319 can you put it all down which is a fabricating the mind itself the the machine that generates all of this like
00:59:32.960 all right you can have that back too can you just sit
00:59:38.720 surrender it all and really see what happens
00:59:44.079 and that means surrendering ontology surrendering what what you think this is
00:59:52.640 that again. That’s what happens when you don’t.
00:59:58.640 He’ll come back and he’s like come back. He’s like, “Okay, try again.” You ready? Infinite lives. Infinite lives.
01:00:05.280 212 million. Let’s go. Um,
01:00:11.280 yeah. And Pip says, “And yet the brain itself is an illusion.” Exactly. It’s a story. It’s a concept that we put in. But we’re speaking as a as a way of
01:00:18.480 speaking. So take as Ishar would say take that concept that image and crack it open and what is it there? What’s
01:00:25.200 what’s what’s in what’s inside? Um I’m waking up says a deep sense of
01:00:30.559 everything and and its own time. It’s the time for whatever is occurring now and always has been. So in other words,
01:00:38.079 this is exactly what it is. It couldn’t be other and it’s right on time. Unless
01:00:43.200 you think that it is and then the fabrication will make it feel as real as a heart attack.
01:00:49.359 The realest fake thing that never was. Yeah.
01:00:54.559 Um Nikki says, “I’m sad I can’t like love live comments.”
01:01:01.200 Oh, it’s good that she was thinking about liking or loving the comments. Oh, yeah. There’s a lot of great comments in
01:01:06.640 here. Um let’s see. Uh, Cypriyani says, “Uh, I saw that all my [ __ ] life was
01:01:14.160 made in order to run from the that ontologic shame. My OCD is built fully
01:01:19.359 on that shame to that core kind of.” Mhm. Yeah. It’s like it’s like the root the root of
01:01:26.319 the tree of identity is is it seems to be built on some kind of shame and
01:01:31.440 aversion. And to face the shame would be to face yourself, right? And when you face that
01:01:38.880 self, there’s something else there. The first I think it shame is like a deterrent because it’s like it puts you
01:01:45.440 in a a mode of just like man. It’s almost like hopeless.
01:01:50.720 Hopeless. Yeah. It is the like guardian of Maya. It’s the guardian of the illusion. Uh the
01:01:57.599 last guardian with the biggest sword that’s like, “Hey, okay, you you broke through fear.
01:02:02.720 You broke through doubt. you broke through u these other guardians here.
01:02:08.720 Uh so now comes Voltron with the blazing sword who’s like here’s what you can’t
01:02:15.280 even look at yourself because it’s so broken, so shameful, and if Ed ever got
01:02:22.079 out into the world, that’s the end of you. And that’s a beautiful guardian because
01:02:27.680 who wants to do that? And it’s it’s relative to to now because
01:02:33.359 this is the only place you ever do it. And shadow work as you peel layers off it it
01:02:38.559 removes escape routes for you. So you can’t like run into mind or mind generated stories that’s going to give
01:02:44.400 you something to get you out of it. It’s it’s the shame full on that you’re
01:02:49.839 left to face with. And what do you do then? Now you have nowhere to go and you
01:02:56.480 don’t you don’t have the tool to use to escape. That’s the that’s the type of facing
01:03:03.440 that you you come to. The the blade and the cutting the cutting of the shame is
01:03:08.799 all it’s all you. What are you going to do then? You’re the guardian. You’re the shame and you’re the thing that can
01:03:14.319 destroy it all. Yeah. It’s like you’re the jailer and the jailed. Yeah.
01:03:19.599 When I was being tortured, you know, I was the one bounded behind the chair and I was the torturer, the guy tickling my
01:03:26.240 feet. I have weird torture. Yeah. I’m thinking like water boarding, electrocuting your nuts. Like for him,
01:03:32.079 electrocution is a is like a perk. That’s what he does for a living. We always say, you know, do not threaten
01:03:39.839 me with a good time. 2,000 volts to the taint is like that’s
01:03:45.839 just getting up in the morning. That is, you know, like cup of coffee. It’s like, oh, I’m here. I’m here. I’m present and
01:03:54.480 ready to go. Ready to go. Ready to go. But it can feel like that kind of degree of torture
01:04:00.000 and it’s self-inflicted. And like when you were talking about this, I was feeling it that you can’t at some degree
01:04:05.039 in the journey, it becomes impossible to hide in the things that you used before. So whether it’s distraction, drugs,
01:04:11.839 alcohol, pornography, whatever it is that we use, we all have our own thing. Maybe it’s uh making videos on YouTube.
01:04:18.960 Maybe it’s uh trying to be successful in your job. Maybe it’s putting all your effort and attention into your kids and
01:04:24.960 their success. Whatever it may be, it becomes you and this is the worst part,
01:04:30.640 right, Ishwar? You still try it desperately. You’re like, “Okay, I’m going to do this.” And it doesn’t all it
01:04:36.000 does is create more shame like why am I doing this? Why is it creating, you know, more friction? In in addiction and
01:04:43.039 alcoholism, they talk they talk about so alcohol is used as a a coping mechanism
01:04:49.440 for whatever the pain, shame, and guilt is. And it works, right? And you’re you’re drinking to to numb and to cope.
01:04:56.880 And then one day it doesn’t [ __ ] work, right? It doesn’t matter how much you
01:05:02.400 drink, it doesn’t numb anything anymore. And then you’re left purely with reality and
01:05:09.039 this thing that you’ve been running from your entire life. Right now there are physiological stuff that we could get into where the body
01:05:16.000 physically become dependent on alcohol and you get shakes and you have to to drink just to to be normal and
01:05:22.720 functioning and you you don’t have the shakes anymore. But that’s the key thing and it the the key to all of this is
01:05:28.480 that there there comes a time where none of your coping mechanisms are going to work and this thing you’re left with
01:05:36.079 unfiltered. So what do you do with it? Then for the alcoholic it’s like
01:05:43.280 they start running to heavier stuff. They get more destructive. You know that was in my instance
01:05:52.480 right then wanting to stop and cannot stop no matter how hard I tried. And so
01:05:59.440 it’s like the entire my entire life now comes to
01:06:06.079 this singular point of it’s destruction or get it resolved
01:06:13.200 and that was it. Yeah. Like either I’m going to die or this is going to resolve itself. Yeah. Yeah. It’s like fix it or eat a bullet,
01:06:20.079 you know? And with alcohol, that’s a that’s a slow, painful, agonizing agonizing way. And
01:06:28.079 and I was fortunate for sure and grateful because
01:06:33.599 that that degree of of pain and anguish and suffering is what brought me to to
01:06:39.599 the moment of clarity was say, uh, all right, I can’t do this. and
01:06:45.680 help help. Yeah. And it was re reality that paused all of this to open up something other than my
01:06:52.960 experience up until that point that say
01:06:58.079 yeah this this is bottom. There’s you can only go up from here.
01:07:04.559 So yeah, there’s so many in the recovery community that have gone on this
01:07:09.760 journey. It seems like it’s it’s a very common thing. Um, emanated apparition
01:07:14.880 says the resistor to the flow of this is the narrowing view of me and all its
01:07:20.480 concepts. I think you’re describing current current resistance V equals IR.
01:07:25.599 I think so. I think so, buddy. Because you’re resisting the pushing
01:07:30.640 something is pulling you and what’s generated the heat of suffering. Yeah. Yes. They say the angle of the dangle is
01:07:36.559 equal to the heat of the meat. If the wire is too, you know, too small and
01:07:42.000 you’re trying to force it through and the resistance is is like, you know, you increase the has to be girthy.
01:07:47.599 I was going to say, are you saying the wire is too small? Because it’s not how small the wire is, but how you use the
01:07:53.680 wire. I’ve Yeah, I can relate. I can relate.
01:07:59.839 Marathon Monk says, “You make a pact with the spirit, alcohol, and it will come for its end of the bargain at some
01:08:06.079 point.” Well, yeah. You know, there was an analogy when
01:08:11.599 like early on in in recovery, it was a grocery store analogy, right? Life is like the grocery store. As you’re you’re
01:08:19.198 walking around, you’re picking whatever you want. You may, you know, snack on a grape or get whatever it is, put it in
01:08:26.080 the grocery cart. But when it’s time to check out, you have to
01:08:31.759 pay for everything. All of it. All of it. So in that way, yeah, it it gives
01:08:38.479 you some level of of freedom momentarily, but in the end when the
01:08:45.839 spirit comes to collect, you have to face what you have to face or not. And then
01:09:02.399 ready player 20,000. Yep. Yep. Yep.
01:09:07.439 Guess who’s back. Back again. That’s right. Oh man. The gift of struggle is its failure. Oo.
01:09:15.920 Evelyn. Evelyn. That’s That’s a nicely said. Everybody’s getting deep today. What’s up with these people, man? Ashley
01:09:22.560 says, “Technically, if the grape is weighed and you ate it, wait, what are we talking about? The grocery store now.”
01:09:28.640 Oh, the grocery Oh, then you can get away. But that’s Well, consciousness and your conscience
01:09:34.000 records everything because that is who the price is paid to. Yes. Because that is the one that resets it.
01:09:40.479 It’s the perfect surveillance and it puts it all back. Who do you think is watching God? It is you.
01:09:47.279 You’re recording all the time. That’s why when when the time comes, you set it
01:09:52.719 back up and you put the things that you’ll stub your toe in the way that you’re going to look and be like, “Ow!”
01:09:59.840 again. My hard drive is full. There’s no more room in consciousness for anything. My
01:10:06.719 memory is [ __ ] man. I don’t remember. Well, we’ll start again. Get a new candle.
01:10:12.560 Damn it. No. Um, let’s see. Let’s see. Let’s see. Cypriyani says, “So
01:10:18.719 expressing everything is limited. Even this affirmation. It seems that we evolved to see the world as cause and
01:10:24.080 effect and we are obsessed with certainty. This affirmation is the same.
01:10:30.400 Are you sure about that?
01:10:38.239 Let’s go with yes then.” Okay. All right. Why not? Yeah. I It depends on the affirmation, I
01:10:43.520 suppose. Mhm. Marathon monk says, “Does Buddhism make the mistake of creating a problem for the seeker? The idea of full awakening.”
01:10:51.199 This came up today. You create a problem, not Buddhism.
01:10:56.800 Don’t put it on good old Buddha. That’s like if you call the Buddha fat. Hey, Buddha, you’re fat. You’re fat.
01:11:02.400 What are you talking about? You’re the fat one. Don’t blame me. I just find out. I try
01:11:07.840 to help you. People in obese houses shouldn’t throw ghee. That is true. That is true. So, so yeah, this full
01:11:15.199 awakening, we were talking about this today. Is there an end to some of this? Is there what is this idea of awake? Is
01:11:21.440 it just a concept we’re putting in the future? Because we were talking about the mind is constructing these ideas of awakening and we’re always chasing them
01:11:29.280 and then we find that they don’t or they’re transient or their experiences or their mystical states. And so giving
01:11:35.600 up and surrendering that and and the Buddha himself would say [ __ ] like this.
01:11:41.760 Yeah. I mean, they they give you a path to to look and
01:11:48.159 where you can I think you can stumble and find this cuz I mean, I didn’t know what the hell I was looking for when all
01:11:53.920 of this was going on, but it was through uh the looking lens of the Baja suit and
01:11:59.199 seeing uh all the senses as they are. I don’t like to get too technical with this stuff, but it was because of that
01:12:07.520 kind of pure way of looking without having an expectation cuz they’re not giving you the Buddha didn’t say you’re
01:12:14.800 going to become enlightened. That wasn’t that wasn’t the promise. He
01:12:22.239 said there’s a middle way and they kind of gave you the middle
01:12:27.520 way. But he he I don’t think they made the mistake of say if you do this you’re
01:12:32.960 going to get this because there is no one getting anything. If anything, he
01:12:39.040 might say, “Here’s suffering. Here’s the causes. Here’s a path. And here’s the
01:12:44.880 end of suffering.” Right? And if you consider that a goal, then okay. But the middle way was freedom from
01:12:50.480 those extremes. All the extremes that neither nothing nihilism nor eternal self soul. Neither
01:12:58.080 But it was always go and find out for yourself. Go and see. Yeah. Go and find out for yourself. And that’s that’s the I I think that’s the
01:13:05.280 beauty in it is that you have the ability to go and find out for yourself. And and this is something where like talking shop is people who make YouTube
01:13:11.600 videos, right? Sometimes I will be in a mood. I can only talk on video about how whatever I was expressing in that
01:13:16.880 moment. And it’s coming from I don’t know where. So sometimes I’ll come on video. You guys see this? And I’m like all the gurus are full of [ __ ] Uh this
01:13:23.199 guy says this, that’s total [ __ ] This says this, total [ __ ] This says this, it’s provisional. What the [ __ ] are you doing? But the truth and
01:13:28.880 and sometimes that pointing is just what you need to hear to crack some fixation on an idea of enlightenment that is a
01:13:36.000 projection. But understand what’s actually happening and what I actually
01:13:41.120 have realized at least for me and this is just me. Everything every part of that was essential at some point in my
01:13:48.000 experience. It had to be seen in that way understood and then let go. And sometimes we don’t let go and then you
01:13:54.320 hear the next thing that negates seemingly negates the other thing. But it doesn’t really ultimately it’s all
01:14:00.159 this love pointing you back to itself in its own way in its own time as someone said earlier right
01:14:06.080 and again like we can say the same thing um okay let’s say the Buddha was sitting
01:14:12.000 here and he said okay it is all about love what does that mean for you
01:14:17.679 if it’s not your time to hear that sounds like a hallmark card right you know what I think by the way I think the cliche industrial complex the
01:14:24.960 hallmarks the greeting card industry Whoever invented Valentine’s Day, they are the one of the last guardians of the
01:14:31.600 illusion as well because what they do is they take the truth and they diminish it by turning it into a cliche.
01:14:37.280 Well, yeah. Everything is love. That is a deep truth. Until it becomes a cliche, then you just roll your eyes.
01:14:43.360 And then once it once it becomes known, then you’re like, what else could it have been?
01:14:48.719 Yeah. What else could it have been? And like now looking back on it, like all the Disney movies
01:14:54.159 like dude, it’s And that’s what I mean like it’s seen everywhere is everything was always pointing to
01:15:00.800 that. Anything that we ever do is always operating from that compassion. Even the
01:15:06.159 deepest loss that that you can feel for a loved one, the primary feeling first
01:15:13.840 is love and then the loss. But it’s from it’s from love that you’re actually
01:15:20.000 seeing the loss. But we run with the the our interpretation of the loss and we’re
01:15:25.280 negating that our first experience is is love. It’s from that that you’re
01:15:32.400 appreciating loss. But we never slow it down enough. We just kind of like jump
01:15:37.920 to loss and then run with all the stories within our minds of how the loss is affecting me. But slow down for a
01:15:44.719 second. You have to feel the love first. Or else you wouldn’t even recognize the
01:15:50.320 loss. Just like if it’s just a stranger walking down the road and you don’t know
01:15:55.520 anything about them and no vested emotion invested in it, if something happens, you may have concern. But when
01:16:02.719 it’s somebody that you’ve devoted your life to and you’ve you’ve invested like a a child or a lover or whatever it is,
01:16:11.280 an animal or pet, it’s a different response completely. It’s a different
01:16:17.280 engagement. That’s the potency of the love
01:16:22.640 always. Always when you go to work and you have your family and you want to take care of them, it’s through
01:16:28.880 compassion and love. It’s why you do what you do. Pause it down. Slow it down for a second
01:16:35.120 and see it. This is what I mean. It’s and this is what we talk about is you’re
01:16:40.400 looking in your life, in your experience as it’s occurring right now. And that’s where you’re seeing this love and it’s a
01:16:47.360 signpost. It’s a doorway in because you you come to feel it conceptually and
01:16:53.120 know it kind of and then this thing just floods you and fills you up. And then
01:16:58.159 you see love was the closest word that we had that can
01:17:04.400 maybe 10 million times removed
01:17:09.440 that gives us a taste of what it actually is. And as it fills us up and it it goes
01:17:17.199 like this pretty pretty quick, then we realized every time that we felt love, that’s what it was. That’s what it was
01:17:23.440 referring to. reality itself.
01:17:30.320 So these things this and you you do this beautiful exercise where you like just take the things you love your maybe it’s
01:17:36.960 your children maybe it’s your spouse something like that and just put it right here and feel what
01:17:42.560 it was like when your child was first born and you saw them. Yeah. And that is like the little
01:17:48.000 fishing line that hooks you and says, “Hey, look back here. This is just a flavor. This is an echo of this thing.
01:17:54.080 Look back.” And then because someone someone here veritable vagabond says I just want the love Eshoar is talking
01:18:00.320 about. Ah yeah.
01:18:06.239 Oh the mind is like I want that. I want that. It doesn’t realize it is that
01:18:11.360 you have it already. You have it. It is you. It is this. It’s you know what? Yeah. You can have it.
01:18:32.080 Nothing says you can’t.
01:18:46.400 Oh, it gets potent. I feel it in my clown chakra.
01:18:53.199 Down one or open. Um Aaron showers says uh everything is
01:19:00.400 originally from love. Even that desire that manifest in human form. Even desire
01:19:06.080 that manifests in human form is from love. Even the act of manifesting is love.
01:19:12.239 What is manifestation? Feel it. Just just stop. If there was nothing, if there was nothing, if this was the void
01:19:19.280 that they speak of sometimes in circles that there’s nothing happening at all.
01:19:24.320 And yet feel now. No stories, no
01:19:29.440 projections, just this miracle.
01:19:35.440 Feel it in the body. What is it?
01:19:43.840 It is the primal act of love of coming into being from what seems like nothing
01:19:50.800 like it is just love falling in love with itself again and again and again and again and again and now and now and
01:19:56.080 now and now and now it’s always flowing
01:20:01.199 always always loveness loveness a process of always outpouring
01:20:08.719 David karse called reality A perfect brilliant stillness outpouring.
01:20:14.719 Yeah. Out of the clown chakra. The clown chakra. Where else would it
01:20:20.880 come from? Outpouring from the the the butthole. No. All chakras.
01:20:27.040 All orphases.
01:20:32.560 Um. Yes, we are still live. Uh, Cyprian
01:20:38.400 Cyprien Georgescu says, “This is an infinite spiritual orgasm.” Oh, that’s
01:20:43.840 it. It does feel vaguely uh tantalizing. Or scintillating. We’ll use the word
01:20:50.239 scintillating. Um, just the fact that I’m alive is love. Veritable vagabond.
01:20:56.320 Oh, man.
01:21:01.440 This is the guru. That is the potency. This is the guru. That shouldn’t be a
01:21:06.800 question. That is a statement. What puts the question mark in is that
01:21:13.120 scar, that inflammation. It’s like you’re saying the truth. The child is
01:21:18.880 like just that I’m alive is love. You’re asking answers.
01:21:25.199 Beautiful veritable. Beautiful. Um let’s see. Dave David Carse took
01:21:32.719 definitely took Iawaska in the jungle marathon monk. Well, he does speak of doing medicine in the jungle and what
01:21:38.239 happened in the jungle. But uh I don’t think they have metformin in the jungle. Metformin
01:21:46.560 plant medicine to lower your A1C. Wow. Take Ombic
01:21:53.199 spiritual ombbeic. Oh, what? Oh, it like forces you to stop eating your own delusion. It prolongs the
01:21:59.920 excretion of Oh man, it stretches the kalpa.
01:22:08.239 At least 500 million birds to you. That’s a lot. That’s a lot. Um R Brazza
01:22:14.480 says, “You should interview Frank Yang. You match his kooky energy.” No, nobody matches his kooky energy. You know
01:22:19.920 Frank, right? Yeah. Yeah, I know of him. Yes, me too. Our friend Angelo knows
01:22:25.360 Frank. Uh yeah. Yeah, he is. Uh if if if
01:22:30.800 Awakening could have a bipolar component, I would say like Jackie Chan and John
01:22:36.800 Claude Vanam. Like I had a kid, it would be him. JeanClaude Van Chang, dude.
01:22:44.159 He’s awesome, dude. Yeah, he is. He is awesome. I really get entertained watching his [ __ ] Yeah, Frank. Frank is like
01:22:49.760 It’s like crazy wisdom. Yeah, he’s he’s he’s cool. Yeah, he’s awesome. I never met him in person. I’ve seen his his uh videos and stuff. He’s just like
01:22:56.960 he’s there. Down to earth guy, too. I mean Yeah. From what I understand. Yeah. I don’t know him. When he’s not zipping around, you know.
01:23:02.960 Yeah. Doing crazy [ __ ] Yeah. Yeah. Plus, you know, he’s pretty yolked, man.
01:23:08.000 He’s like a bodybuilder. Yep. Yeah. So, me and Ishwar, you know, we’re working on our spiritual muscle, which
01:23:14.000 is uh the clown chakra. Can you see it? Yeah. Can you see it? Look, if you can’t see it, you’re not awake.
01:23:20.400 It’s only apparent to those who can’t unapparented. I don’t know. the unapparent trap.
01:23:27.360 Something like that. I am with nothing says Frank taught me that awakening can happen for anyone, hence it could also happen for me. You
01:23:32.960 know, that’s a that’s always a beautiful thing. Angelo showed me that like, oh, it happened for a doctor who’s just an
01:23:39.920 average guy out in the [ __ ] community and he has that degree of like emptying out. It’s like, oh, that can I I can do.
01:23:45.840 But listen, Angelo plays with people’s consciousness. He holds them on the line
01:23:51.280 as an puts them to sleep. But really his job is to wake them up. Wake them up. So it’s like I think he
01:23:58.320 got the perfect It’s like life. Life is funny, man. If you think this thing isn’t a simulation, come on. Yeah.
01:24:05.760 Marathon Monk says, “On the topic of perfect brilliant stillness, the book disturbed me deeply before getting a
01:24:11.199 glimpse of awakening. It’s paradoxical though. Now and why write a whole book dissing awakening?” Yeah, it’s it is a
01:24:18.239 very funny book actually. It showed up just when I needed it and it was let go when I needed it to let go. I don’t read.
01:24:27.199 Books are useless actually. So, let’s be honest. I’m joking. No, but but in all seriousness,
01:24:33.040 so so Ishar has never been on a silent retreat. He didn’t do the typical path.
01:24:38.320 His path was aa and recovery and being forced to sit and face your darkest
01:24:43.440 demons. And that that does the trick, you know. That does the trick unwillingly. Totally. like clock C clockwork orange
01:24:50.719 like eyes wide open. All of you go to Sage willingly. I want to see. I was like I don’t No. So,
01:24:58.159 right. You can go willingly or kicking and screaming. I chose kicking and screaming apparently. Yep. Yep. You chose You chose without
01:25:04.719 lube. Yeah. Over the table. It’s coming. You’re going to you’re going to get it regardless. That’s it. Um Cypriion says, “Are you
01:25:13.440 going to collaborate with Angela Moore for the sake of it?” Uh I don’t know. I was thinking he he upset you somehow,
01:25:19.520 dude. Angelo upset you. Come on, dude. What did he do? He was, you know, he was too cute. Um,
01:25:27.280 Angelo, were you mean to No, no, no. Here’s the thing. So, people might get that impression occasionally
01:25:33.440 when I make a video where I’m like, “All these people who talk in this way are full of shit.” Oh, you saying [ __ ] to everyone. Everyone. I’m like, “Fuck this guy. [ __ ]
01:25:40.560 that guy. [ __ ] this.” Angel is like, “I want nothing to do with him.” I don’t know him. He was like Peter in
01:25:46.000 the Bible. I don’t know him. Peter Pattern. Um, it’s not that way.
01:25:52.159 No, no, no. It’s not like that. So, you know, it’s funny because sometimes I’ll make videos like that, Nigel and I’ll chat and he goes, “Oh, yeah. It’s a good
01:25:57.440 expression of that particular view.” Were you talking about me? Yeah. But by the way, were you talking
01:26:02.480 about me? Cuz bro, I thought we were cool. It’s like, no. Um, I’m mad at you for, you know, being awake. Yeah. It it
01:26:09.520 it it’s not like that. Um, I do I thought we were brothers. Let the dirt shower over you.
01:26:18.000 Angela and I share a common clown chakra. Like it is like a fistula that’s like
01:26:23.360 stuck together. Um but but but that said sometimes
01:26:29.840 that that way of expressing say in a particular way just doesn’t resonate in that moment and a different expression
01:26:35.920 comes out. And the way Zuben expresses is he takes a [ __ ] on everything. He’s like the jester archetype. He’s like
01:26:41.840 [ __ ] all this. And then people will write comments like, “Well, you’re just obviously you’re stuck in this view and this and that.” It’s like maybe, but not
01:26:48.080 really because that the next 5 seconds later, I’m like, “Oh, also meditate all day and it’ll help you see through
01:26:54.159 this.” You know what I mean? So, it it’s it’s you just don’t believe anything I say unless it resonates with your own
01:26:59.679 thing because that means then you’re aligned in that moment with what’s happening. And again, the guru shows up
01:27:05.199 the teacher. And no, I’m not a teacher, but you’re the teacher projecting me. So I will show up as you when the time is
01:27:11.760 right or Ishar will or the dog or the gardener or whatever.
01:27:17.600 I show up for no one and everyone is no one. I honk for clown chakra.
01:27:24.639 Yes. Um Dr. uh Caven says baldies. Love you baldies. Look at that man. That’s
01:27:32.800 considered um a slur. Okay. In our community bald. Hold on. We’re taking
01:27:39.920 that word back. Wait, are you making fun of the follicle
01:27:45.920 challenge? See, that’s the PC term, but we’re taking Baldi. Hey, what’s up, Baldi? Baldi, please.
01:27:52.000 Bro, come on. Not cool. Not saying master bedroom. Master bedroom. You can’t say master
01:27:58.560 bedroom anymore because it implies there’s a slave bedroom. Yes, but owner suite. Owner is much better. Way better. Way
01:28:04.960 better. Way better. Oh my gosh. David McDonald is attacking Angelo all the time after David got depersonalization
01:28:11.199 in this process. Now he’s saying that Angelo is dangerous and is making people nihilistic. So again, what is saying
01:28:17.520 that is the Ronald McDonald? Ronald, he’s talking about Ronald McDonald, not David. I think his brother is like
01:28:23.760 it’s like [ __ ] this awakening [ __ ] Like I listen, I’m very sympathetic to people
01:28:29.760 who go through that piece because I’ve gone through it too. It’s like you feel like this is [ __ ] This is all a
01:28:36.639 lie. The whole awakening thing is [ __ ] Anyone who talks about it is wrong. It’s all a story. We’re all incepting each other. And to some
01:28:42.880 degree, human consciousness is like that because anything that can be known is a construction in that way. But what
01:28:48.880 Angelo does very well is he points at different stages to what is beyond the known, right? By embodying it.
01:28:55.120 There there’s a no one’s perfect. There’s a component to to this that seems as though it’s in a stage and
01:29:02.159 you’re moving through it in a certain fashion. One of the one of the things that we talk about particularly when it
01:29:08.400 comes to to love and the component is love is you’re in this place where
01:29:13.600 there’s a profound loneliness that you feel because it’s you here by yourself
01:29:19.280 inside all of this and then you have no place to run and your experience can feel flat, dry and dead. And the the
01:29:27.280 natural response to that is that what’s the point of all of this then? and it
01:29:32.639 becomes nihilistic really really quickly. Um the flip side to that is when you come
01:29:39.600 to that point is to understand that that’s a that’s also a stage that you’re at and the experience is to be infused
01:29:49.040 with this aliveness because the mind cannot fabricate the aliveness. That’s
01:29:54.320 why it seems dead. So it’s it’s required for the nihilistic side of things to
01:30:01.440 really turn to that and it requires effort to turn because it’s like everything in my experience is saying
01:30:07.520 that what’s the point to all of this because now the mind just can’t generate anything.
01:30:14.000 But there is something else there that cannot be fabricated because the mind
01:30:20.800 can’t replicate love. It just doesn’t know how to.
01:30:26.880 Its response, its job was to categorize, dissect,
01:30:32.560 create things out of this. But it can’t create this. It doesn’t
01:30:39.199 know the nature of this. Not yet. But it’s a possibility. But until you come
01:30:45.440 to that point, you won’t turn around to say, “Well, I wonder if there’s something else outside
01:30:51.760 of the nihilistic side then.” And that when you make that turn is when
01:30:58.239 you you’re in the position to discover this. Up until then,
01:31:03.520 you’re just playing around. And and honestly, you can be stuck in that sort of nihilism for a long time.
01:31:10.400 And I speak from experience for me, too. Yeah. Yeah. It it was definitely a a stage and
01:31:17.280 if that’s the the only thing you’re hearing once you get to that then you’re not hearing the full conversation.
01:31:23.440 And and and one of the things that happens is all all these people like myself maybe I can’t speak for David. I
01:31:29.120 know David. Um McDonald. McDonald. Yeah. David McDonald. Not Ronald. Ronald I don’t know. And I wish
01:31:35.520 I did because quite frankly I’m really pissed off at what he’s done to the Whopper and the Big Mac. I stayed at his house. Oh, at the
01:31:42.159 McDonald House. Yes. McDonald Estates. No, no, the Ronald McDonald House. That one at the hospital. Yeah. Oh, wait. Actually stayed there.
01:31:48.320 Yeah. My daughter. Yeah. So, how was that? Fantastic. Yeah. That clown, man.
01:31:54.719 His clown chakra is all love. That fell is all clown love. He’s all clown. All clown.
01:32:00.000 All clown. All love. Chakra is just secondary. Oh, yeah. Yeah. He’s He’s full of You’re a clown. Oh, I feel it lighting
01:32:06.159 up my uh you know, my heart chakra. Um, so when we have a YouTube channel and we’re going through this, like myself,
01:32:12.480 I’ll speak for myself, when I’m going through the nihilistic phase, that’s what’s going to come out of my mouth because it becomes increasingly
01:32:17.840 impossible to say anything that isn’t what’s just arising. You can’t contrive it or fabricate it beyond what’s being
01:32:23.840 fabricated like naturally. And so, you know, people will go through the thing where they’ll be like, “Fuck this guy,
01:32:30.560 Angelo. He’s full of [ __ ] This feels like depersonalization. And it feels and it might be in that case or it might be
01:32:36.159 that you’re in that nihilistic place because you’re not it’s just where you are and like Ishar saying there is
01:32:43.120 another there’s a possibility that there’s a fullness there that isn’t seen when we’re in that place and we’ve both
01:32:50.080 been there. Mhm. Um, and occasionally it still arises transiently when I’m going through a lot of shadow and then I make a video and it
01:32:56.800 sounds like I’m [ __ ] unhinged and just a smidge just a just a touch and it’s like that’s
01:33:03.360 what and so people could go back over the years and see how I express and it’s almost like you’ve documented the
01:33:08.880 journey. Um, so don’t take anything anybody says as anything beyond just
01:33:14.080 what it is, which is that expression. And that includes Angela, it includes me, it includes Ishwar, anything.
01:33:19.440 Because you’re ultimately it’s this, right? It’s always one of the the
01:33:25.920 earliest things that I’ I’ve come to know and understand is that it’s never other. It’s never the other person
01:33:32.560 because it’s my interpretation of what’s occurring that I’m I’m in a like a
01:33:38.000 feedback loop in about. It can never be the other person. So, it’s always pointing back to me. It’s not no one is
01:33:44.719 going to make me be nihilistic. It’s I’m interpreting some some type of
01:33:50.320 experience and then calling it something, labeling it and then well that person made me. It doesn’t work that way. It
01:33:57.440 never works that way. And when we we can see it and recognize it,
01:34:03.199 the minute you see it, it’s like the mirror just it turns around on you like, “Oh shit.”
01:34:08.800 Yeah. It’s it’s reflecting you. It’s not it’s not anyone else. I see I see quite a bit of expression
01:34:14.480 online of people projecting onto others the causality or the reason for their
01:34:20.560 own confusion, suffering in a spiritual dimension and or in a in a life
01:34:25.679 dimension. And it is it’s seen it’s like after a while you go
01:34:32.960 it’s it’s always you. Now that’s not to say that people don’t behave in ways that are can be harmful and that they
01:34:39.120 should take responsibility and be held accountable. Absolutely. Um but this is this is compatible with
01:34:44.400 that as well. Yeah. Both can be true. Um Autumn says, “I hear and receive so much more complete love, grace, and complete
01:34:51.280 acceptance of everything from Angelo.” So that’s see that’s what you’re getting from that transmission.
01:34:56.639 And and it depends on who you are, where you are, what the video is, what the algorithm showing you at that moment.
01:35:02.880 And sometimes I got to say just turn the [ __ ] off. Totally. Yeah. And go in. What are you using this for?
01:35:08.800 Sometimes I was using it for avoidance. I don’t want to feel the thing. I’m uncom this. This would happen to me. I’d
01:35:14.080 feel some [ __ ] shadow coming up and like ooh ooh I’m going to watch some non-duality videos.
01:35:20.400 Distraction distraction. And some [ __ ] like, “You need to die.” Or some [ __ ] like, “It’s all love.”
01:35:26.000 Or some [ __ ] is like, “Yeah, yeah, yeah.” And this thing is still brewing here being me. Being me sitting
01:35:32.880 in the seat of identity. It’s like [ __ ] I’m going to deny it. Yeah. Doesn’t exist. Yeah.
01:35:38.000 Um what Cypriani says, “What’s the two day 2D view that people are talking
01:35:43.760 about? Something modified in your view of objects after this period.” So sometimes you hear people like Kevin
01:35:49.040 Shanelch or Angelo say when like the senses are explored and the object
01:35:54.320 subject duality dissolves and those filters dissolve things can look more 2D and this and this and I’m just going to
01:35:59.679 say this. I’ll let you give your impression. I understand what he’s talking about. At the same time this is not my experience
01:36:07.199 at all. um I can I can invoke that as a sensory like fabrication in a way and
01:36:14.880 there is this indescribability of experience but to I can’t describe it as a 2D flattening or anything like that
01:36:21.440 that’s just not my experience so everybody has their own sense gates you
01:36:26.800 know uh sense experience sense fabrications it’s it’s doesn’t have to be yours
01:36:32.000 yeah mine is
01:36:37.360 for listening on the podcast. Uh Ishwar just gave the non-dual stare.
01:36:42.480 Yeah. And and that’s all I have to say about that. That’s that that’s probably the best thing to say about sensory experience.
01:36:49.199 But it’s fun to talk in these ways, share our experience and share all kinds of things everything happens from from fractal types vision which can
01:36:57.679 be described as I forget the an optical optical migraine can can create that and
01:37:04.159 you can superimpose that to be like oh [ __ ] everything is just fractal like you’re like you’re about to have like
01:37:10.080 you’re you should go see a doctor now you’re having a retinal detachment right
01:37:17.280 but also So, you know, once awareness gets sharpened like that, as you’re
01:37:23.600 looking at things, you become aware of all kinds of stuff. You can literally see the the light particles as they’re
01:37:30.000 entering your eye and it seems like little lightning bolts. If you want to give that your full attention, it’s more
01:37:36.639 experience. Yeah. All right. Awareness is getting sharpened. Direct it to where you want
01:37:42.000 it to go, which is to see through this thing. Everything else are are experience. Leave the experience alone.
01:37:49.199 Look at the thing that you came here to look at selfidentity and the structure and nature of reality. Find that out. If
01:37:55.920 you want to distract yourself with 2Dness and all of that, fantastic. That’s great. Go ahead.
01:38:01.360 Fun fun fun project for sure. I mean, what’s a few more lifetimes? That’s okay. Well,
01:38:10.719 um the the to
01:38:15.920 um I I think there’s a joy in sharing those experiences and many of them are
01:38:21.360 common to the non-dual experience but at the same time they set up a kind of a seeking apparatus in people and this is
01:38:27.840 a criticism that I hear of many non-dual speakers is they they describe things and then people go chasing them right and I and that’s what sometimes I see in
01:38:34.560 comments was like, “But they say it’s like this, but why am I not having that?” It’s because you’re not having that. So, look at what you are having.
01:38:40.719 Yeah. Look at like the entire thing is pointing back to you to look at your experience. When
01:38:47.760 when we have an idea that’s instilled in us because of what somebody else experienced, we’re not even chasing what
01:38:54.159 they’re talking about. You’re chasing your interpretation and mental projection of what that person was
01:39:00.080 trying to describe. There is no way for you to know their experience. So now you’re ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch
01:39:05.280 ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch chasing your fabricated interpretation of their experience,
01:39:11.040 which is something where are you going to find it? Look at your own direct conscious and
01:39:16.639 aware experience right now. And that’s that’s all this was ever pointing to. I like the way Pip says that this is a
01:39:22.159 way to confuse people totally. He said, which is which is great for me when I see things more clearly. It’s more of a
01:39:27.760 no D experience. I resonate with that one.
01:39:33.440 You’re like, “No, it’s kind of what Ishar just does just that.”
01:39:39.119 Just a couple of bug eyes. Two bald guys with bug eyes. That’s our new That’s our
01:39:44.880 new book, our new podcast. Two nuts in a sack. Um, I’m with nothing says or Ian with
01:39:51.360 nothing uh says, “I should think uh I know I think people should learn the underlying math if they’re going to
01:39:57.119 describe experience as fractal-like in 2D. At the end of the day, these descriptions are just models.” Yeah, that’s exactly right. That’s what that’s
01:40:02.960 exact. They’re constructed u frameworks for talking about something that you can’t talk about. Geometry.
01:40:08.239 Yeah. Which I can’t talk about. Uh what is it? Tangent over angle. What? Obtuse.
01:40:15.520 Um Ethan Rock says, “The most most in touch with stillness and beingness I ever had was in a sensory deprivation
01:40:21.520 tank. It was amazing. One hour felt like all the time, all time, and refreshed
01:40:26.560 beyond measure.” That is awesome. I was in there. It got in my eye.
01:40:31.760 It was I I as well did a sensory deprivation tank and I was just like
01:40:37.679 I’m nauseous. I had a little motion sickness. I ate before I went in and it was just bubbling. I was like oh not me.
01:40:43.760 Not all I’m sens Yeah. I did not like it. My wife hated it too. She was like this just made me
01:40:49.040 sick. I don’t like this. But for some people it’s this transformative experience. Yeah. At the time when I when I tried
01:40:54.400 it, um I think like awareness was so in tune with with everything that it was
01:41:01.679 like you could not dissolve into it because this the
01:41:07.119 solution makes it the same uh temperature as your skin. So you can’t distinguish between the the boundary of
01:41:13.920 what you were taking you and your your actual experience. But for me it was like when it got in my eye, I was like,
01:41:20.800 “All right, I’m done.” It could because it’s hypertonic. Like it’s so salty. It’ll burn the [ __ ] out of your eyes. I
01:41:26.080 was like, “Yeah, it’s Epsom salt.” Good thing I didn’t drink any cuz it would be a different
01:41:32.159 Is that water supposed to be brown? Yeah. What’s going on? Um, let’s see.
01:41:37.280 Taste. That’s it. Ashley. So, soa chief to We used to call it chief soa. That’s how we
01:41:43.440 remember the geometric uh sign over hypotenuse or something or angle. What is it?
01:41:49.360 I don’t [ __ ] know. Yeah, that’s that’s years ago. Sulfur X. Sulfur X. Um,
01:41:56.000 let’s see. Oh, yeah, man. They’re all talking about geometry now. Well, you know, uh,
01:42:01.360 Jolene. Yeah, nerds.
01:42:07.119 It’s all right. We’re all We’re non-duality nerds. We’re all nerds. Yeah. Yeah, we are all nerds. Yeah. You went to some magnet school. Did [ __ ]
01:42:13.600 calc when you were 15. [ __ ] Yeah. You’re a lunatic, man. Nerd. Nerd.
01:42:18.719 Nerd. Um, do you remember Revenge of the Nerds? Remember what was his name? All of them. Yeah, all of them. Right.
01:42:24.400 What do you mean? What was it? Uh, so wait, clap your hands everybody and everybody clap your
01:42:29.760 hands. Yeah, it’s lambda lambda lambda and omega moo.
01:42:35.600 How did you say your memory was like? Oh, no, no, no. This is what you remember. Yeah, that’s right. I only remember [ __ ]
01:42:41.520 that happened pre-awwakening. Anything forget everything else. Everything after it just falls away. It
01:42:47.679 falls away. It falls away. Um, oh my god. Uh, nerd here says, “I Ian with
01:42:52.960 nothing.” There we go. Um, I’m It has the glasses. Oh man, that’s a crazy one. Um,
01:43:00.320 he can’t see without his glasses. He didn’t even see it has glasses.
01:43:05.600 Well, what do you think, man? Anything else you want? Do you Should we keep going? Should we stop? What What’s going on here? How long we been going? We
01:43:11.360 going for an hour and 42 minutes. I think uh
01:43:18.560 Bye. Yeah, that sounds the minute you show me time, I’m like that’s a story that I
01:43:24.719 don’t like. That’s too long. That is uh too long. It could have been.
01:43:33.840 So, here’s hoping that your next rebirth is slightly less painful than this. Uh if and remember, you will always recognize
01:43:40.480 it. And when you somebody’s about to have birth, so pay pay close attention
01:43:45.600 to the baby. Oh yeah. Whenever they’re about just go, “Oh man, what was
01:43:51.440 reincarnated here?” Someone who’s really pissed off. Oh man. It’s like and then make them forget as quick as
01:43:57.440 you can. Just be like, “Okay, look, this is the world and you’re going to make lots of money and AI is going to take
01:44:02.960 your job.” Oh man. Right into the suffering. Right into it. Full on. No blunt.
01:44:11.040 Um, awesome. Marathon Monk does not want to be reborn. And you won’t be because you watch our videos. Smash that like
01:44:17.199 button, hit share, subscribe to Sense Without Mind, Ishwar’s channel. Um, man,
01:44:23.520 what else, dog? Guaranteed no rebirth. Who’s going to guarantee that? Not me.
01:44:30.719 Don’t put that juju on me. That’s on you. With our 12step program, learn from
01:44:37.040 years fighting in the octagon. You too can learn not to pass the candle
01:44:42.159 and the flame onto the new body. You leave it and let it die right now.
01:44:47.679 Extuished. Abort your future baby before it’s born. Oh my god.
01:44:54.239 I went there and I will go there again cuz there is no right and wrong. Okay, I’m sticking to that. That’s non-dual
01:45:01.040 comedy for the win, man. Oh man. Fantastic. Fantastic.
01:45:06.239 All right, open your clown chakras. Shout out to Josh Putnham for the clown chakra. Uh shout out to everybody who’s
01:45:11.760 helped us along our way. Ooh man. Which is which is me, [ __ ] You’re all projections.
01:45:16.960 Yeah, that guy. That guy right there. He He only helps himself for this selfless
01:45:22.000 thing. It It’s very selfish. There’s a lot of duality in this non-dual thing. Yeah, it’s very And apparently it is
01:45:29.119 very uh it is very conflicting. Yeah. It’s it’s always fighting with itself.
01:45:35.119 Then it’s loving itself. And then it’s all loving itself. And it’s all happy. And operators are standing by. No COD.
01:45:42.800 And you too can experience love for the low low price of
01:45:48.880 Aaron Sher says, “We have the proven method that works.” That’s right. For the low price of $59.95
01:45:55.199 monthly installments. And and Pip says, “Don’t worry, you’ll never be sued for failing, right?” It’s
01:46:00.639 like, well, they they won’t remember. They [ __ ] I’m going to sue him. And and remember, you’re all this [ __ ]
01:46:08.080 This [ __ ] right here. Mhm. And we are out. Say bye-bye. Do you need to
01:46:14.320 potty? Oh. Uh.
01:46:20.320 Oh. Oh man. Dismiss.